The Power Gear leveling control operators pad was originally laying on the surface of the dash. It was very difficult to see the buttons. The buttons are surface type with embossed ridges.
And although you can see they were surrounded by white printing, they were very hard to see from the driver’s seat. Especially at night. I’d have to grab a flashlight. In addition the tiny ‘Jacks Down’ LED couldn’t be seen either (there’s two of them shown above, a little one, and a large one at the top of the black metal plate). The larger black panel with the ‘Jacks Down’ label had a hole there, but no light installed when I bought the rig (I added the one shown there now). Checking the records I could only find the barest of information on this Power Gear system. The operator’s manual was there but it was for an older model. So I have to assume the original owners (I bought from a consignment lot) must have had trouble with it and swapped out the controller. The tech that worked on it didn’t even bother to screw it back down to the dash. The screws were just laying there loose.
I decided that the system needed an Off/On switch that I could shut off after I was satisfied that the jacks weren’t going to scrape the road. So I’d not have to wait while the jacks slowly retracted. Here’s a view of the added Off/On switch on the backside of the small angled stand I built. I didn’t want it to be too accessible, I wanted to have to think about it each time I used it to help prevent driving off with the power off and the jacks down. I usually have to turn it on to drop the jacks when I stop for the night, and then I just leave it on. Next time I start the rig, it’s beeping and the LEDs are flashing.
And here’s a back view that gives a view of how tall this homemade backplate is…
All this woodwork (a small job involving 3 pieces of plywood) took just an hour at my brothers house. He has a nice table saw. It wasn’t until a couple years after I bought the rig I made this stand for the Power Gear panel and by that time, I was really annoyed with the control pad being so hard to see and difficult to use. I’ve been very happy with this mod as it solve both those issues.
Here’s the story of how and why I ended up mod’ing the jack controller: As I drove the rig off the lot just after I bought the rig, I heard it beeping and at the same time the ‘Jacks Down’ light would flash as I made turns to the right. I did pull over and make sure they weren’t down, and while doing that noticed that they were pulled up with large springs so no worry there.
Over the next several trips I made with the rig, the beeping became continuous and eventually I had to crawl under the dash, find the control box (which was just hanging down there by it’s wires), pull what appeared to be the power connector, just to shut it up. When I’d arrive at a destination, I’d plug it back in and lower the jacks to level the rig. That got old quick but I was always in a hurry so eventually I just cut the red wire going to the 6 wire connector and put a switch in series. That way I could just reach down by my ankle and flip the switch. But I also forgot to do that several times as I drove away from a campsite and it would start beeping at me. Then I’d have to fumble for it and drive at the same time. Here’s a picture of it now that I’ve mounted the controller on the side wall. There is plenty of room here so I never accidentally bump it with my knee or anything. I also dressed all the wires with zip ties. See that translucent connector there next to the yellow wire nut? That’s the main power connector. There is a red wire that goes to that connector you can’t see in this picture that I cut and added a switch in series to be an ON/OFF switch.
Finally, I was parked at a campground for several days with bad weather and nothing to do so I pulled the system controller and switch pad, grabbed the book, did internet searches about it, and took the controller thing apart. That’s when I discovered it wasn’t the original system but a replacement…and brand new. Or at least so lightly used as to be nearly new. Because of the way it was designed, I only had to add a few components to allow the addition of a nice LED light that I put in an older neon lamp holder that fit in the empty hole (see first picture above). There is an integrated circuit that has several high current transistors in it that seems to be the device that actuates the pump solenoids. And now the LED.
After that I built a little box for it out of wood where I could angle the switch panel up away from the dash so I could actually see it while sitting in the drivers seat. That was really handy. Can’t believe the manufacturer thought laying it down was a good idea.
Then I got to reading the operator’s manual and discover that the beeping could be caused by low oil. Added a half quart of ATF to the reservoir and the beeping stopped. That lasted through several weeks of operation but later I also noticed a puddle of ATF on the foot pad of one of the rear jacks – passenger side. So, I have a jack with a bad ‘O’ ring. Took a while online to find the repair kit and it turned out it was over $150. For ONE jack. I wasn’t in a place to do the work myself and I balked at the price. So, I ignored it. I’ve since learned that practically any hydraulic shop will do the piston maintenance much cheaper and according to most DIY’ers, the toughest part of the job is to break the big bolts free and remove the pistons.
Ignoring the problem did make it go away. Sort of. If I filled the tank with ATF I could use the jacks several times before the beeping returned. I noticed there was always oil in the tank even though it might be beeping, enough that it wouldn’t be so low as to damage anything, so I went back to my idea of switching off the power and added a switch to the power line of the Power Gear controller. That’s now mounted on the back of the stand I built for the control pad. I can easily reach up and flip it off if the oil level drops and the beep returns and I can’t be bothered to go out there and top off the tank.
It has been 5 years now and I’m kind of use to it. I’ll try AT stop leak here soon. Next time I’m in Mexico I’ll have one of the great mechanics they have in Mazatlan repair the jack for me if the stop leak doesn’t work. In the meantime, I don’t mind switching it off if it beeps and adding a little ATF once in awhile.
Update: April 2011
The Power Gear system hasn’t been much trouble for the last couple years but I would like to mention some of what’s happened and what I’ve done to live with it. First a picture of the ‘works’ of the system. This is right under the front grill (this is a diesel pusher so the engine is in the back). Below where the passenger would sit but in front of the wheel.
Power Gear Leveling assembly.
You can see how grungy with road grime this assembly becomes after a few years. The large black metal cylinder is the oil reservoir and it does leak a little from the seal and probably from the hydraulic block on top of it as well. One of my upcoming projects is to pull the assembly out and clean it up.
I did try a hydraulic leak stop a year ago and that actually migrated back to the leaking rear cylinder and plugged it for a while but one of the parks I stayed at was so uneven, that that cylinder got extended to far and started to leak again. But I’ll try the stop leak again this summer and then avoid having to extend that one cylinder to far again.
Update: Haven’t had to add stop leak much at all. Haven’t had any more big leaks from the system. Though it seems that I’m having to add stop leak every two years or so. If I park on a pad that’s not level enough, and have to extend that jack a bit farther then normal, then a little oil will leak out. Once I park at a flatter site, no leak. The large leak I had years ago, where it would practically fill the landing pad with oil every time I stopped for any length of time, was pretty much fixed with the AT stop leak.
I have also have an electrical problem with this system every once in awhile. It simply won’t operate. The control pad lights up and all but when I press a ‘Down’ key, nothing happens. Then I have to go out and wiggle all those wires going to the assembly until it starts up again. Like I said, I need to pull it out and do some maintenance on the whole kit-n-caboodle.
Update: (Feb. 2013)
The system failed recently. I have no leveling. The lights come on, on the controller, but the pump motor does not activate when I try to extend any of the jacks. It’s pretty easy to work around the issue by choosing RV parks that are nice and flat. I lived with it for months until, after settling into a nice RV park with flat pads, I opened the hood and looked around the hydraulic jack system area. It’s housed just in front of the passenger side front wheel well. You can see the ‘Oil’ dipstick for the reservoir in the picture above.
The motor and hydraulic routing block is just above the large black ATF holding cylinder. Along with an automotive type solenoid to power the pump, then that bundle of wires were all connected to the various valves for the system. There’s the solenoid for the Right Rear, Left Rear, Front, and finally, the ‘Retract’ valve. In the below picture, I’ve removed the coil that is the one that I found had a broken terminal. I’d missed that it was loose and intermittently connecting the other times I’d glanced in there looking for a problem. Usually I’d wiggle the wires and the system would start working again. When I discovered that this time the red wire was just dangling, that was kind of a tip off that the system wasn’t going to work. So I pulled off that solenoid…not that hard, see the big grey nut on the right of the shaft below? Unscrew that, and the coil just slides off.
After removing the coil and bringing it into my ‘shop’, I grabbed my little high speed rotary tool with the grinding disks and proceeded to grind away the plastic around the broken off terminal.
You can see where I’ve ground off some on either side of the stub (what’s left) of the old terminal. I was able to determine that corrosion had eaten away at it until the natural fatigue it got from vibration riding down the road eventually caused it to break off.
Once I’d exposed enough metal, I took a new spade terminal from my stock, cut off the working end and soldered it onto the stub. And now, a working coil. Taaadaaaaa!
Found out later that I’d saved myself $50 over buying a new coil. They are available online.
Cleaned up the area, cut the old terminal off the wire and replaced it with a nice new one. Cleaned all the other terminals and squeezed them a little so they grabbed their terminals better, used contact spray on everything, and everything was back to normal. Now had working leveling jacks again. Yeah!
Later that year in Mexico, I had my mechanic replace the main solenoid. It was looking pretty poor after 20 odd years of age. More rust than metal on the case. It still worked, but I didn’t want to worry about it.
Update: Dec. 31st, 2015
I’m having a brake job done on the fronts here in San Felipe, Mexico and the mechanico used my front jack to lift the rig enough to get the wheels off. When I went to lower it today, it ‘jumped’ down just a tad, and the controller turned itself off. WTH?? I’m scratching my head, but I go ahead and turn the controller back on and try to retract the jack again. Same small jump and it shuts off of the controller. So I just keep doing that until the rig is down, then go out and open the hood for an inspection.
See the coil behind the one in the picture just above? When I wiggled the wires to that coil, one of them just fell off. AhhhHAH! Another corroded terminal has broken off. And it was just dangling. Well, this isn’t good. I’ll have to perform the same job I’d done with the last one. This time it’s on the ‘Retract’ solenoid and the brake mechanic is coming back to do the other wheel this Saturday and I have to get it fixed before then (today is Thursday).
But, since I’ve done it before, it only took me a couple hours and it’s all back installed and working again. It’s handy that since I’m having the plastic wheel well surrounds painted that they were at the paint shop and so not in my way while I worked on this. Soldered a terminal tab onto the stub of the one on the coil, cleaned up the other tab, and put a layer of solder on it too, and I’m ready to go. Tested fine. I added some heat shrink tubing over the terminals that might help reduce any corrosion but these have lasted 23 years so far so it’s lifetime is not all that bad as it is. Maybe now I’ll get another 23 years out of them?
Thanks for your info(power gear)-just got 1st rv and my level system wails when I try to use it. Just drove it home from Ky. I live in Pa. I am thinking maybe ice and freezing weather might have something to do with it. Older unit 2003 but nice condition. I guess I,ll wait til spring to find out. Very little info on web. But thanks .
If it’s the wailing I’m thinking of, then I’d check the ATF level in your Power Gear tank first. Then spray the shafts with silicon lubricant.
Since it’s a hydraulic system, using oil, nothing will freeze, but the oil can thicken and the pump will strain to pump it through the system, so that can make a wail sound. Also check that the right type of oil is in there. Should be reddish. Like ATF.
I have a 2002 Fleetwood Discovery 37U with Power Gear jack system the power light does not come on and the jacks do not work.I checked the fuses in the fuse box in the side compartment and they are ok.Are there other fuses some where else to check.
Help …………….Al
Yours is 8 years younger then mine…in mine, the drivers cockpit lifts up and there are a bunch of fuses there. (Yours may have them under the hood if it’s a gasser). But in my Power Gear set up, the jacks were an option when the first owner bought the rig. Because of that, the main fuse for the Power Gear controller is in-line, just before the control box. I’ve heard some owners of newer Fleetwood’s say that the fuses for the Power Gear are right at the hydraulic setup. Not sure the main fuse would be there, probably just fuses for the coils. In mine, the fuses for the coils are sticking up above the metal case of the controller itself.
My leaving jacks will not go down on my 2003 Damon Challager it makes a clicking noise
First thing I’d check is the battery voltage at the battery. Then, if that’s good, I’d check that the cable from the battery, to probably a junction stud with several battery take offs from it, is clean and corrosion free. Then check the battery cable connection at the hydraulic assembly itself.
The clicking sounds like it would be from the power solenoid for the jack system and if it’s clicking, it’s most likely because it’s not getting enough power (which is why you check the battery voltage). When you try to lower a jack, that solenoid closes, the high current of the motor causes that voltage to decease, which causes the hold voltage of the solenoid to decrease so it opens. Once the motor load is disconnected, the battery voltage getting to the solenoid rebounds so the solenoid can close again. And repeat.
Excellent article! Just the help I need to troubleshoot my issue with my 99′ National Dolphin MH! The power Gear hyd. Jack system doesn’t operate when the “retract all” button is pushed. Tho only way I have found to release/retract them is to turnoff the aux. Parking Brake button on the dash, or shift into neutral . I think it’s an “emergency” step built in , in case of an “retraction” failure occurring w/ the normal. ” retract all ” switch? It releases, but kinda rough and sudden, not smooth. It’s never worked since we got it (my father in law disconnected the pump due to a broken rear jack spring- never fixed, just chained in the “up” position.
Pressing the ‘Retract’ button on mine also may cause a sudden descent. But that’s just if there’s a lot of tension on the jacks…for example, when you have one jack on nice flat ground, and the other jack(s) on a hill. If you’re on flat ground, and didn’t extend the jacks very far to begin with, then it’s usually a nice gentle descent, unless you’ve gone too high when you parked. You just want the jack pads to kiss the ground or jack pad. Raising above that point causes the sudden ‘drop’ when retracting.
Now, your problem with ‘won’t retract’. Remember there is only ONE retract valve. That’s all that’s needed. It releases oil pressure to all the jacks at the same time and the springs pull them up. Since it’s working when you shift into neutral or turn off the Aux P-B, that means electrically, the retract solenoid and valve are fine. Those safety circuits are separate from Power Gears controller and prevent you from driving off with the jacks extended. What I’d suspect is a wiring error, broken wire, missing wire, disconnected wire, corroded wire. And at the Power Gear Control Box. That’s a box nearby the Control Panel (though they could have combined the two into just the Control Panel). You should be able to download a users manual from Power Gear using your model number…there will be a schematic there. It’s also possible that the electrical switch inside the Controller has gone bad. Which means either a new controller, or just shift to Neu to retract the jacks. I’d strongly suspect a wiring problem though. Either at the controller or near the solenoid.
Before I read your article, I assumed the control panel for the Power Gear jacks (left of the steering wheel) was at fault. Now I’m thinking the problem might either be a “retraction solenoid” or a fuse. Or wiring on that circuit? I didn’t know there were fuses ( ? ) for the jacks. I do t know where they are , off hand, either. I do know the PG system was added as an accessory when it was bought new in 99′, along with a ton of other upgrades. So, maybe they are “in line” somewhere, and not in the control center?
Yes, there are fuses for each solenoid powering the extend/retract solenoids. These are exposed with a cutout on the lid of my ’94 controller. I’d be surprised if yours isn’t the same. But, they could also be inline with the wires, or mounted on top of the tank. But they WILL be easily visible. Either right under the dash near the driver’s left foot, or right at the hydraulic tank and valve block. Mine are the new plastic case type fuses, not the older glass type.
Any advice you could offer would be of big help.
Quoting your statement: “It’s never worked since we got it (my father in law disconnected the pump due to a broken rear jack spring- never fixed, just chained in the “up” position.”.
This could be good news if it was a long time ago…it means there hasn’t been too much use of the jacks so they’re probably in good condition…though I’d drop a bottle of ATF stop leak or restorative in the tank to be safe. I’d also use a rag soaked in ATF to wipe down the jack shafts to get some lube to the rubbers. BTW, if you do end up with a leak, ATF Stop Leak does work on these systems, I use it on mine because one of the jack shafts tries to leak every so often. Like once every two years or so. End up with a puddle inside the landing pad and some leaks out on the ground from the pad.
I’m assuming you removed the chain and installed a good spring before you started working on the jacks…
Thanks! MEJ
You are welcome! Enjoy your toy!
my 02 Discovery control panel doesn’t respond. I press the power button and nothing, no light – nothing.
Hi, John. I just noticed your comment. Two days late, but not too bad considering the holiday and all.
Anyway, you didn’t give me much to go on. Which control panel? The Jacks Panel I’m guessing? And are they Power Gear?
If they are Power Gear, 1st make sure the rig is shifted into Park, and try Neutral too. Then find the tank and hydraulic manifold (usually they are together) and check all the wires and connectors. Is everything in good condition? No broken wires? Terminals clean? Fuses OK? Some Power Gear systems have fuses right at the solenoids at the tank, and more at and just before the control box in a power wire…which is mounted on a wall under the dash on the drivers side.
Check that stuff and let me know…
I have a 2002 Bounder MH. I had the jacks down and when I tried to retract them I got no response. No light in the touch panel. I finely released the emergency and put the trans in gear and they then slowly retracted. I’ve found and checked all the fuses I think. The tank and power unit are underneath and hard to work on but I found the inline fuse and it was good. I checked the fuses in the control box, all the fuses under the dash, and all the fuses under the hood. The tank is full and the batteries are charged. I can’t find any bad connections. I’m wandering if it’s a bad control box???? I didn’t see any fusses next to the control box. It’s on the wall next to the floor in front of the left foot. Hard to get at. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Hi, Harry! Thanks for visiting my humble blog. Just found your comment but I’m just heading out to dinner, so I’ll read it, and mull it over, and come back later hopefully with some ideas for you…stay tuned!
2017-11-14: Opps! Totally forgot about your question, Harry. Sorry. You’ve probably already gotten the problem fixed but for my readers, I’ll mention that the two jack systems I’ve owned, one a Powergear, the other a HWH, both had plug in automotive fuses at the control box. That control box in both cases was up under the dash on the drivers side. Both were just loosely held in place with a couple zip ties and the wiring bundles going to them and after cutting the zip ties there was enough slack to slide the control boxes out to check the connectors and fuses. While lying on your stomach and side in uncomfortable positions.
The symptoms you explained about your system reminds me of the problem I had with my Powergear. In that case a wire connector to the main solenoid had corroded in half. After that was repaired the Powergear system returned to normal. With my HWH system, when it starts getting chilly at night, the next morning the slides won’t work. Have to wait for it to warm up. In that case I found that the ground lug down where the hydrualic system assembly is (under the living room slide) needed to be reefed on. That fixed that problem.
Good luck!
94′ Bounder HWH jacks. Park brake set, trans in neutral, ign switch on, control panel lights up, move lift lever, light go out. If I hold the AUX button on dash and have power light on at the control panel, the lift works. Can’t find where power is lost to the panel. Pump works fine when hot wired.
This really sounds like a ground issue, Kermit. Check the wiring of the system and try to find the main grounds, from the controller down to the hydraulic manifold where the motor and all the solenoids are. Remove, clean, reinstall. Pay particular attention to the big ground lug you’ll find on the frame near the hydraulic manifold.
Now, if cleaning the grounds changes nothing, than I’d recommend contacting AZPete on one of the many forums where he monitors HWH stuff. He works for HWH, doesn’t charge for his advice, and really knows HWH’s systems. If you’re on the iRV2 dot com forum, you can send him a PM and he’ll assist you. If you’re not, I suggest you sign up with them. Good luck.
I have one of [our?] jack [systems on] my RV. It is a 2003 Sea Breeze built [by National]. I have [had] good service with the jack until [last] year. The [system] would beep after I lifted the [jack]. I [was] told [this] was caused by low oil pressure , and I needed to fill the [reservoir] tank. I filled [the] tank and the [jacks] worked about four times and then the right jack would not lift all the way and would have to be forced up.
I have had two RV repair people look at it and they have given me all sorts of what they think it would be.
They say it needs to be replaced or rebuilt. The prices they [quote] are from $2000.00 to $3000.00 to fix the problem.
I would like to know about what a new jack would cost and the amount of time it would take to replace or repair. A ball park figure would be nice, because I think my quotes are way to high.
I corrected some mis-spellings probably caused by the poster using a tiny phone keyboard and put the corrections in brackets for easier reading by others.
Those $2,000 to $3,000 quotes for an RV guy to repair that single jack are accurate in my opinion and experience but only for an expensive RV shop or a chassis manufacturers shop. You said ‘RV Guy’ and I’m not sure what that means. If you’re talking about a mobile RV service guy, that does seem a bit high. Sounds more like what a RV shop would ask. But anyway, here’s what I’d do, again, based on experience and a lot of reading on RV’ing forums.
First, try to find the manual for your jack system. Usually you can dig that info up from National’s database. Read up on what they recommend for regular maintenance.
Here’s what I’d do…first retract all the jacks. I’d be careful to NOT over extend any of the jacks while working on this, and to avoid that try to work on level ground. First lower that right jack to the stop. Than I’d spray the jack ram (that shinny shaft) with WD-40 to remove and wash away any gunk and grime that has built up. Than depending on how dirty it is, I’d either wipe it down with a clean dry shop rag OR let it dry for a few minutes. Then I’d moisten the shop rag with ATF and wipe down the ram, than retract and extend that jack several times. After that, than might as well do them all in order. Than I’d check the springs on the right jack, assuming yours has them. Those springs get old and tired and sometimes need to be replaced. Especially if they spend every summer extended in a hot area.
Here’s info for owners of the HWH Jack system: If your jack system is actually an HWH (instead of a Power Gear), they used a weak spring in their early jack system ’03 models. The weak springs have a flat bottom and top (ignoring the hook) and they replaced those with a better spring with a tapered top and bottom. And that made all the difference. I replaced all mine and that worked in this ’02 Winnebago. But I didn’t need to with the Power Gear system in my ’94 Bounder as the Power Gear system didn’t have that problem. eBay carries the springs…so does Amazon.
If you still have the problem after the above, you might need to have the jack rebuilt. And for that, check Craigslist in your area under services. You’d be looking for a heavy equipment handyman. You can call them to get specifics. All they need would be a set of big wrenches and sockets, and a strong arm. Let them know what you’ve got, that they’d have to work underneath, and get a quote from them about removing & replacing the jack. Hire someone to do the job, than take the jack to a hydraulic repair shop. They can repair them usually for under $100. Then have the handyman reinstall it. So for around $200, you’ll have a rebuilt jack. A brand new replacement jack is around $700, an RV shop would charge around $700 for the job, if they know what they’re doing. If not, or if they don’t really want the job, you’d get a $3,000 quote.
Note that if your jack has been bent or something, then it would be leaking. If it’s not leaking, you probably only need to do the cleaning and/or replace the springs. Doubt very much you’d need a new jack.
Good luck!
I have a 2001 fleetwood discovery dp with the power jack system I have looked all over this coach all cubby’s under the coach all cabinets everywhere used a tracer still can’t find the location of the control box I have tried to jump the sylenloid nothing not even a click jacks worked before a battery change on the coach now nothing their is power to the panel
If your Fleetwood is similar to the Bounder I owned, the control box is up against the firewall forward of the drivers left foot. Buried by huge bundles of wiring. So check there. Your control pad looks exactly like mine did and mine was a PowerGear system. I now have a HWH jack system and it’s similar too.
You might pull the touch pad for the jacks and tug on the cable attached to it. Sometimes the control box was attached on the back of the touch pad so look for that too. Anyway, the control box is usually (but not always) separate from the touch pad and in that era around 2001, often had a bank of fuses right there, the cover of the box had a big cut out for them.
Good luck!