Repairs to double paned windows

My double paned windows, if they blow a seal, and I’m not talking about their personal lives, will accumulate moisture between the panes.
Here’s a picture of how bad it can be:

Each window in the bus, other then the front windshield and the bedroom rear window, has two double paned portions, one slides open and one is fixed. Then there is a bug screen. Every window of this type is double paned and are made with an aluminum channel between the panes that is covered with butyl rubber to seal them. The frames are all aluminum. Occasionally, leaks can develop that allow outside air to infiltrate the window in the area between the panes. If it carries moisture, it can condense on a pane, usually the inside pane. That makes the window difficult and sometimes impossible to see out of. I have three window panels that have developed leaks in their seals so this week, after nearly three years of ignoring the problem, I decided to do something about it.

The first window I tackled was the small window right next to the door, sort of a training window for me. It’s about 30” wide by 25” tall. First, I removed all the screws from the inside frame. Then with a little tugging, removed the inner frame and the screen. Then I gently pushed the window assembly outward. Since there was some silicon caulking along the right edge of the window on the outside, it didn’t fall to the ground. After it was loose, I went outside, cut the silicone and pulled it out of the frame. It would have helped to have a helper but everyone was busy that day. Back inside the rig, I began by taking the top rail off the window assembly. There are two screws on either end, first covered with butyl caulking and then a layer of duct tape. As well as a single screw holding the center rail. With those five screws removed, I then peeled off the foam sealer from the top rail and a few inches down each side rail. Then I draped it out of the way. This allowed me to remove the top rail and then lift out the window section with the leak. With the window out, I cleaned up everything, but I left any gobs of butyl to reuse. I also removed and cleaned the small plastic assemblies that have tiny plastic wheels in them that are suppose to make the window ‘roll’ along the lower sill. They stopped ‘rolling’ years ago and had worn down to a flat spot on the roller that would slide along the plastic sill cover. Since the windows open and close fine, especially when sprayed with silicone lubricant, I left these alone after cleaning because, ‘why fix something that isn’t broken’?

Here’s one corner, two screws and the tape have been removed, and the foam seal is positioned out of the way, draped over the front of the window. After this is done, then the top rail can be removed, and then the sliding portion of the window assembly is removed. Since the sliding section had the leak, I didn’t have to deal with removing the fixed portion of the window assembly :

After cleaning, I drilled three 5/32” holes along the top rail, about 6” apart, and centered between the panes. I chose to drill along the top rail and not the bottom rail because I did not water to somehow be wicked up from the bottom channel if condensation got down into the bottom channel of the window assembly. I didn’t drill into a side rail for different but similar reasons. The top of the window has an excellent waterproof cover and would tend to be warmer so I felt it would have less condensation in and near that rail, so less chance of creating a new problem. While I was working I tried to come up with a method of resealing the holes after I was finished getting the moisture out from between the panes. I could use silicon caulking to fill the holes but I didn’t know how the silicon and butyl rubber would react to each other and I didn’t want to create a new problem. Plus I didn’t know if this method would work the first time so I wanted to be able to open the holes again easily if it became necessary. I could use home made soft rubber plugs but those seemed difficult to fashion from what I had on hand. I could use sheet metal screws but didn’t think they would seal well enough. What I settled on was just using duct tape to cover the holes since it’s water proof, makes a good seal, stays in place, doesn’t shrink, and won’t react with butyl rubber. It seemed the easiest to deal with, I could remove it easily, and it should last for years in the relatively protected place I was going to put it.

Here’s where the holes were drilled:

I worked carefully, because I didn’t want any drill tailings to fall between the glass plates. Then after drilling, I picked out or vacuumed any drilling debris I could find. It’s not much of a worry with this type of window because of the butyl rubber sealer used inside the window would stop things from dropping in there but I wanted to be sure. Then I used a sharp awl to pierce the butyl rubber. After that I spent several minutes with each hole using the awl or a drill bit to twist the soft and pliable butyl out of the hole.

Poking the awl down through the butyl seal:

The first window the butyl was nice and soft and cooperated. On the second window, I found it to be stiffer. Like it had lost some flexibility over the years. In any case, I was able to remove enough. When I could see a little daylight through the holes, I began to heat the window with a heat gun. I used the 630F setting because I was worried that if I used the 1,000F setting I might shatter the safety glass. I’m sure a standard hair dryer would work just as well. I started heating the window at the bottom and slowly worked up. Occasionally, I’d turn the frame around and heat the other glass. This slowly vaporized the water between the panes, and the three holes at the top allowed the moisture to escape. After the air between the panes was warm enough that I could see water on the surface vaporizing, I inserted an air pump (used to inflate tires) into the center hole, using a plastic tip that is usually provided with the pumps these days. This particular tip is generally used to inflate vinyl beach toys.
Here’s the equipment I used for this little project:

The moving air forced the moisture to vaporize rapidly. I could see it disappearing from the inside surfaces of the glass. The pump gauge registered 25 PSI while it pumped and I could feel a strong air flow out of the open holes on both sides of the center hole. After around 15 minutes of heating and blowing, the moisture seemed to be completely gone so I shut down the pump and immediately covered two of the holes with small ‘silicon’ crystal drying packs, like the type that come with a new watch or small electronic device. These would dry the air that would be sucked back between the panes as they cooled. I sealed the 3rd hole with a piece of closed cell foam since I was out of the little silicon packs.
The silicone moisture removing packets in place:

After 30 minutes of cooling time, I covered the holes with duct tape and then reinstalled the window in the frame. Then I moved onto the passenger window. Again the sliding portion of the assembly had the leak and lots of moisture between the panes, so completely covered with moisture that only the front half of the window was usable. So I followed the same routine with this slightly larger window (40” wide), removing the inside frame, using packing tape to hold the outside window assembly in the cutout, removing the window and moving it inside to work on. Then drilling 3 holes along the top of the assembly. With this window I should have had more patience and heated it longer because several hours after reinstalling, there seems to be a re-accumulation of moisture between the panes. The smaller window is still perfect. I should have had more patience. I will let the small amount of moisture between the panes go for now, it’s a pleasure to finally have a passenger window where I can see more then 50% of the view, and there is so much of the moisture gone it’s a 95% improvement. I have been living with it cloudy for 2 & ½ years, and the clear view is a welcome improvement. Someday when I’m bored I’ll remove it and do the process again.

(On edit: It’s now 3 years later and the smaller window is still clear. The larger window does show a small amount of condensation in the right lower section, not enough to affect driving, but I’ll redo that window next spring anyway.)

Here’s the passengers seat window after treatment and reinstall, compare this picture with the first one in this section:

One thing I’ve heard about these windows is that there were some people on the forum I frequent who had noticeable water streaks between the panes or a white powdery residue disfiguring the glass. I’m not seeing much of that with my windows. Now that I’ve gotten rid of the moisture between the panes, the glass is pretty clear with just minor numbers of ‘water spots’ that are not all that visible and probably wouldn’t be noticed unless you were really looking closely.

I was happy at how well the windows were made. Sure they had developed leaks between the panes, but they are 13 years old and bounced around all the time on the road too. The holes cut into the wall by Fleetwood was also well done and well finished with two types of sealing. If the seal is good between the window frame and the side wall, there should not be much air infiltration into my rig.

Finally, I’ve heard from several people that either have, or want to try this method and most of them seem to be under the impression that the windows need to have a perfect seal. Although you may disagree, I don’t believe that’s true. For a dual paned window to fulfill it’s primary objective, all that’s necessary is a GOOD seal, not a perfect one. You want a dead air space between the panes, no air movement. But it does not have to be perfect for the window to do a good job. That’s why I didn’t try to seal the holes I’d drilled with anything other then duct tape. Sure, the tape ages and dries out so I might need to replace it some day (I’m thinking in five years), but that is a minor project. And I think the next time I do it, I’ll use sticky backed aluminum tape as suggested by a reader. Sounds like it’ll do a good job.

If you try this method, let me know how it works out for you. Thanks. My email address is on the home page in the pane named ‘Support’.

Roof Repairs the easy way.

My bathroom skylight started leaking, the water traveled inside along the molding and soaked into the ceiling cover, staining it. So, after some Internet investigation on the best way to tackle this problem, I climbed up on the roof with a roll of Eternabond roof leak sealing tape. This tape has a smooth white surface, a thin gray layer, and a super sticky bottom surface. So super sticky that if once you put it down, it’s down for ever. The EPDM type roof that many RV’s have can develop leaks, or have leaks thrust upon them, like when I first started parking in RV parks, I skittered tough branches along the edge of the roof several times. This opened the EPDM covering which allowed water to seep into the RV. Not a good thing. Anyway, I knew I had a leak at the skylight so with the Eternabond and a pair of sharp scissors in hand, I completely surrounded the skylight with tape. The next big rainfall, which was later that night, proved the theory the the skylight was leaking as it remained dry as a desert in the bathroom. Before I taped it, it had been so bad it actually rained inside. Drip-drip-drip.

The repair lasted a couple – three years, and recently there was another slow leak into the bathroom. Not as bad as the original but an annoyance. I went up and checked yesterday just before we had a big rainstorm and added some tape to a new crack in the skylight, then sealed one of the tape edges on the skylight that had pulled away. Must have not cleaned the plastic well enough when I did it the first time. About 15 minutes later the rain came, very heavy, but no leak this time. I’d also re-did  a section along the roof line, you can see the tape in the above photo. There was an open section that must have been the cause of the water getting into my overhead cabinets and soaking some of my technical journals. At least I hope so since it’s sealed now. While I was at it, I sealed the seam between the front end cap of the rig to the house portion. The end cap is a large molded fiberglass section that helps keep the front inside dry since it’s a large single piece.

Doing this would help prevent any leaks into that seam. I was in one rainstorm that went on so long and was so heavy that I was getting water dripping off of the antenna crank, which is close to that seam. Haven’t noticed that happening since. Note that the white Eternabond tape is 4″ wide.

I still have a leak in the endcap that drips on the dash while I’m driving in a rainstorm and I suspect that is from one of the running lights you can see in the above photo. When I can find a ladder to borrow, I’ll seal those up, too.

Repairing the Awning…again.

My Colorado Carefree awning spring let loose again a couple months ago while I was up in Fairbanks. It’s an 18′, SpiritFX, purchased in ‘99 by the previous owners. I didn’t really need the awning in that coolish weather so I didn’t do anything about it until I arrived here in Walla Walla under sunny skies and with 80°F temperatures. I had had to rewind it the first time in Mazatlan back in March of ‘07. Taking it apart back then I found that nothing was broken, but the spring had just slipped on the post it’s friction fitted to. Discovering how to rewind it took a couple of hours of internet searching. I found that Carefree Awnings has a web site with PDF files with exploded views and instructions, including the number of turns needed on the spring. But the instructions I found were not all that clear for a first time re-winder so I’ve included some advice here.

Back in ‘07, I undid the rear assembly and found that the rear spring was fine (my awning has two springs, a front and a rear). But I did let it unwind, cleaned things up, got rid of some of the rust in and around the spring, wiped it down with oil, then rewound it to 15 turns. Then I went to the front end of the awning and did the same thing there. At that time, the spring grabbed the cone in the endcap very tightly. The spring seemed to be happy and my awning worked great up until June of ‘09. That’s when I heard that ’sprong-rattle-rattle-rattle’ noise springs make when they unwind rapidly.

Now that I’m in a warm & dry area with lots of sunshine, somewhere where I actually need the awning, I thought it was time to see what I could do to re-repair it. Again, when I took the  front end apart there was nothing broken, just the spring off it’s post. So, thinking that was all that was wrong I tried to rewind it but it would get 12-13 turns on it and then let go of the post. It appears that the post has gotten smoothed out by the spring as it’s spun those times when it has let go previously. There are some faint lines in the metal that suggest it used to have grooves that corresponded to the spring but they were pretty much worn away.

Did I mention that everything is aluminum? Except the spring? At my sons suggestion, I go get some sticky backed tread tape, the stuff you use on steps to prevent slipping, thinking that would do it. It didn’t. Get it up to 14-15 turns and it gives way again, winding the tread tape off the post. Seems the sticky back isn’t strong enough. Though it did seem like it was going to work there for a while.

I thought I’d finally try that Gorilla glue everyone raves about. After two hours of drying time, I find that the spring still turns on the post so I leave it to dry overnight. It did get down to 59°F during the night but the glue seems nice and hard the next morning. A couple tests show that it’s probably going to do the job.

So, here’s what I did with the spring holding nicely to the post:

First, the awning is extended and the rear end of the awning is supported by the support arm latched in place. The lower support arms, both front & rear, are not extended. Then the pull down strap was tied to a nearby tree to prevent the single spring in the rear portion of the awning from winding it up. The front awning support arm is removed from the upper support member by removing an Allen screw (go take a look at your awning, you’ll see it near the RV end of the lower support arm channel). Taking the front awning upper support out of the assembly makes it easier to reattach the locking mechanism once the spring is wound and less chance of knocking the release mechanism open, which would cause it to unwind wildly. I whacked my hand badly when this happened to me. You should wear leather gloves for this work. Have your tools handy so you don’t have to drop everything in the middle of the job to grab something. Note that there are only 3 screws required by the awning. Have them nearby, like in your pocket, with the tools needed to tighten them. Make an index mark on the roller and the endcap.

Once you have ascertained that the spring is nice and tight on the endcap cone, you can proceed with reassembly and winding the spring. The first time I did this job, the spring grabbed without complaint, and held tight, but it let go after two years. This time I added Gorilla glue after messing around with other methods that didn’t work. Like roughing up the cone with a file (made it worse and the spring just spun on the cone), bending the coils of the spring so it would be tighter (didn’t seem to do much, I could get maybe 5-6 turns of the spring), adding sticky backed tread tape (after a few winds of the spring, it just tore the tape off the cone), and using a hose clamp (not enough clearance). Since a rod goes through the cone, there wasn’t enough metal in the cone to drill holes and add threaded screws to hold the spring.

Here’s the instructions for rewinding AFTER you have the spring nice and tight and grabbing the cone without slipping:

1. Line up the index mark made on the roller to the one on the endcap, rubber hammer it onto the end of the roller with NO tension on the spring;

2. Install the two screws that hold the endcap to the roller, note that at this point the awning roller is supported at the rear end by the rear support arm and in the front by laying the assembly on the front lower support arm, which is still attached to the bracket on the RV. It’s prevented from trying to wind up by the pull strap tied to the tree (or cement block);

3. Grab the endcap with vise grips. Using the vise grips for torque, turn the endcap 14 turns (the installers manual says 15 but I think that’s too tight as it bangs too hard as it hits the stop when it rolls up), the arrows embossed on the cap by Carefree show me which direction to wind and the internal ratcheting mechanism prevents it from spinning back when ever I relax to regrip the vise grips (but it remains attached to the endcap, just my hand moves to a better position), but be careful here too. Don’t put your hand(s) where you might unlatch the latching lever;

4. After 14-15 turns, remove the front lower support arm from the bracket on the RV (I had been using it solely for support of the awning tube while I wound the spring) and carefully work the lock/unlock bale (which is attached to the lower support arm and slides up and down)  over the release latch, then insert the arm into the endcap assembly (since the arm has been removed from it’s attachments, this should be easy). CAUTION: Avoid bumping the Lock/Unlock  lever on the endcap as this can cause it to release and rapidly unwind the spring with a dangerous and rapid spinning of the endcap assembly;

5. Insert and tighten the 1/4 -20 X 1/2″ screw through the endcap into the support arm, after doing this, it’s pretty safe;

6. Fit the front lower support arm back into the latching bracket on the side of the RV, insert the front upper support arm into the channel and install the Allen screw to hold it in place (the front upper support arm was only removed to make it easier to manipulate the lower support arm);

7. Untie the pull strap from the tree or cement block or where ever it’s tied, unlatch and slide the rear support arm back to stored position, do the same to the front support arm;

8. Using the Lock/Unlock lever, lock the awning, which should cause it to wind up if you turned the spring the right way. Keep a hold of the pull strap.

Done! So far the Gorilla glue is doing the job and the spring is holding. Just hope the glue finally fixes it permanently.

One of the accidents I had was to allow the front lower support arm to be moved to much fore and aft. This eventually broke the pins in the latch which make an axle. I had to remove the assembly, carefully drill a hole through the latch where the pins use to be, and insert a rod (I used a 10-24 screw that I’d sawed the head off) as a replacement. All is well and the latch gets used so seldom, I expect it to last many years. Just a note if you need to do this, there are two slots that are slightly smaller then the pins (and the bolt I used as the axle) were. Tapping on the axle with a screw driver and a mallet helped snap the new axle into the support. There is a little play between the axle and the axle slot and I guess that’s to allow for some fore and aft movement of the arm without breaking the OEM axle…I just went to far, I suppose.

Further awning repairs…

After I got the awning spring rewound, I decided to work on the rear upper support arm. The cinching screw that keeps the arm from moving to much in the wind was rusted  in place so I couldn’t turn it. First I soaked it in PB Blaster to try to unfreeze it. I let it soak overnight, that didn’t seem to do much. So I grabbed some tools and tried to turn it. It finally started to move but all that did was strip the threads in the big nut. So, off to the RV store where I was lucky enough to find a bag of replacement knobs (2). Back home, I found the only way to get the thing of the arm was to hack saw it off. I used a small saw that I could get into the space I had and hacked away at it until I could break the bolt. That did damage the nice baked enamel paint but I had to to get it off.

The hard part to this job was cutting the bolt since the threads were stripped and I couldn’t just unscrew the knob, and then there was trouble lining up the new flat nut so I could get the new knob threaded on. I did use some lithium grease on the parts so it won’t rust for a while. Another maintenance item for me, yeah.

Awning Lock exposed.

A couple years ago, I came up with this awning lock that prevents the awning from unfurling if you’re driving and get hit with a quartering wind. The ratcheting mechanism in the awning wears down pretty quickly, less then a year in some cases, and allows the wind to come up under the cover, pull the awning out and it becomes a sail. Not fun if you’re driving at 60MPH. Dangerous.

What I did was grab a gate latch from the hardware store, had a welder weld that ring bolt to the shaft and  then installed it on the rear of the awning by removing the endcap bolt and replacing it with a longer one, then drilling a new hole for a 8-32 bolt with locknut.

The end of the latch bolt slips around 1″ into the hole in the awning and will prevent the awning tube from rotating in the wind.

I use my awning rod to latch/unlatch it but I’ve found that I need a 63″ rather then the 42″ one I’m using. The shorter rod works, it’s just a longer rod would make operating the latch easier. Of course, if I was taller, that would help too.

Repairing the Door Lock

The front door lock assembly was working fine until today when I heard a ’snap’ when I opened the door. Removing the three screws and pulling apart the assembly revealed a broken spring attached to the inner handle assembly. Glad it broke while the door was opening because if it had happened before, I’d have been stuck inside the RV!

Anyway, just the hook on the spring was broken so I took a screw driver and pried the last coils apart, giving me a gap between coils. This allowed room for a zip tie’s thickness. I inserted a 1/4″ wide zip tie (I mention the size because I think a bigger tie is necessary for strength) and zipped it around a tab that the manufacturer of the lock was so kind to have there (intended for the hook at the end of the spring – which is now broken off). Checking the operation I noted that the zip tie barely moved when I operated the door handle! A good thing because the lack of movement means the zip tie isn’t being stressed to much and should give me long life. I did try a smaller tie but it moved too much and one of the stress points was over an angle . Even if the larger zip tie I used doesn’t last, I still have the spring and can possibly find a match at Ace Hardware or somewhere similar. When I happen into a hardware store with lots of springs, I’ll run back to the RV, grab it and match it up! Meanwhile, it’s working perfectly, and I don’t expect it to break at the zip tie for a very long time.

Here’s a picture of the lock assembly after repair. It’s easy to see the zip tie there in the center of the picture holding onto the post. Should work well. Maybe even last until I sell this beast.

Stopping the creeping rug

I got myself a 2′ X 5′ rug to put in front of the couch shortly after I bought the RV and found that the thing was always trying to creep up to the front of the rig. It was weird, I’d walk on it for just minutes and zoom, it would be six inches closer to the dash. I found that the same thing happened to nearly every RV owner and the RV.net forum had lots of advice to keep the damn thing in place. I tried several of the ideas, like putting that rubberized shelf covering under the rug and a couple other ideas which did work but just for a short time. Then I tried stapling the rug to the floor. That worked but the rug started moving just a couple weeks after installation since the staples worked out of the floor easily. Then I tried stainless screws and large flat washers and screwed one end of the rug to the floor. So far the best idea and it worked for over a year, but then the rug started ripping where the screws went through it.

I bought a new rug, making sure it had a nice strong looped edging, and then bought some 36″ X 1/2″ X 1/8″ aluminum strip stock. I cut it to 24″ then drilled 6 holes in it and inserted some stainless wood screws through the aluminum, through the rug just passed the edging, and into the kitchen floor. The aluminum bar is acting like a large washer. It’s been months now and it looks like this idea will hold. I’ve got my fingers crossed. It stays very nice and flat and doesn’t seem to have the tendency to rip out where the screws pass through the rug. We’ll see how long it lasts.

Here’s a shot of the rug and clamp. Note that since it tries to head to the front of the rig anyway, I only clamped it at the back end, there’s no need for a clamp at the frond end, since it stays taunt all the time:

Here’s a close up of the clamp bar:

Transfer switch info

Here’s where my automatic transfer switch is, in that box on the back of that kinda open box. I have not opened it yet, but since it is working, I’ll leave it alone.

For those unfamiliar with large RV’s, most have this transfer switch that protects the equipment on board if you’re both plugged into shore power and start the Generator (Genset). The switch only connects to one source at a time, either shore power OR genset, not both. Fire would be a likely result if they were connected together. It’s really just a large relay.

General repairs

The dash wiring had been causing problems for months so I figured it was time to do something about it. It was nothing more then adding a few ‘Ty-Wraps’ to hold the wire bundles in place; soldering an extension on a too short wire; and building a LED lamp and resistor assembly to replace the melted plastic that once held a 12V lamp plugged into the back of a switch that I had had to toss:

All that should make it easier on me because the weight of the bundles would often disconnect a couple of indicator (tell-tale) lamps due to road bounce. That in turn would cause an annoying misunderstanding of the state of either the electric entry/exit steps, closed when expected to be open can cause a nasty fall; or the basement lamps, leaving them lighted for too long could melt something or cause a fire if in close proximity to flammables. The dash lights are my reminders.

I know it’s difficult to see anything under there that I might have done, but trust me, those little annoying problems are finally repaired and working correctly.
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Damaged Basement Door Surrounds

Since this rig is a ‘94, the basement doors are an old style. The door frame sticks out about 1/2″ past the body of the rig unlike the newer models that have a smooth exterior. While they are perfectly fine for most low mileage RV’ers, I tend to put more miles on my rig per year and as a result of trying to get the rig into some tight parking spaces in RV parks, I’ve bumped into some trees or cut a turn to tight and scraped guard barriers with the side of the rig. That means some of the door surrounds are damaged. Here’s a picture, the most visible damage is at the bottom of this door on the left:

And a closer shot:

Soon as I figure out where I can get replacement parts, I’ll try to repair these.

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Toilet problems

I noticed a puddle of water on the floor at the foot of my Thetford Aqua-Magic toilet & stand. The toilet sits on a carpeted plywood stand that is 9.5″ high. Couldn’t have been leaking that much more then a couple days so I think I caught it early enough.

Here’s the toilet and the stand, the water was showing up around the base of the stand on the lino:

For the passed couple years I had been leaving my water pump off unless I was actually using it. Reason was that every half hour or so, the pump would run for 3-5 seconds to restore pressure to the house water system. Even if I hadn’t used any water. That meant there was a leak somewhere. The several times I wandered around the RV checking, I could never find the leak. So I got into the habit of turning off the pump whenever I wasn’t using the water and turning off the park water supply when I was off doing something. Doing that had saved my bathroom floor from being soaked all the time and ruining the subfloor.

I have the booklet from Thetford with instructions on how to remove the toilet. Their booklets are also available on-line. When the leak appeared, or rather, became noticeable, I was down here in Mazatlan and there is very little in the way of repair parts for this toilet as far as I know.

I went to a new Home Depot and got some parts I’d need to be able to connect a garden hose to the toilet to test it, and after connecting it, I turned on the water and found that the valve, although leaking, didn’t seem to be leaking enough to have caused the puddles of water that were coming out from under the toilet stand. Or so I thought.

I cleaned everything, wearing rubber gloves, but it wasn’t fun, even then. I found that the foam seal (like a typical wax seal but made of closed cell foam) that was installed was still foamy but had crud on it. I scraped off all that I could and coated the entire seal with Vaseline so I could still use it.

This is the unit in the bathtub connected to a water hose for testing:

This picture gives you the layout of the toilet, it’s upside down, the flushing pedal and fill pedal are on the left, the foam seal goes around that round plastic lip in the middle and the flush valve…the one that was leaking…is on the right:

I cut the carpet out of the area where the toilet would sit, so it was sitting directly on top of plywood, as per Thetfords original instructions. It was installed by the factory right on top of the carpet so the crush pattern gave me a line to cut to. Nothing I saw under the toilet was all that bad. The plywood was still in pretty good shape, with a little darkening from water but generally still sound.

Finally, I cleaned out the sewer hole and all mating faces…yuck. But I had the gloves, and a plastic bag to store the cloth when I’d finished.

I put it back in place, bolted it down, and it worked better. No puddle of water in front for the first few minutes, but then a steady trickle. Further checking proved that there is a substantial water leak from the water shut on/off mechanism that actuates when you step on the pedal. I didn’t have enough water pressure on it or didn’t wait long enough when I was testing.

So it needs a new actuator valve or something similar.

Since I couldn’t find any repair parts locally, I took it apart. I pulled out the actuating shaft, which had lots of rust and gunk around it and all over the single O ring. Pulling out the shaft caused the brass rotating shut off device to fall out of position, inside the body of the plastic case. (When I put it all back together later, it took nearly a half hour to get that part back into the right position). I tried to clean everything I could reach with small tools. It turned out the body is glued together so it’s not easy to work on and didn’t just unscrew and come apart like you would expect. After everything was cleaned up and had Vaseline slathered on it, I put it back together. The leak test showed it again worked as a water valve, and it no longer leaked out of the shaft tube.

Here’s the valve, the flush pedal is connected to the threaded metal shaft on the top of this picture. The leak was around that shaft, which faces down when installed:

And another view of the valve, that entire metal shaft assembly pulls out and the ‘O’ ring is near the bottom of the hole:

So far, after several days, no drips…when I get back to the states, I will get a new one, and install it, keeping the old one for a spare…

Just after I finished with the repair, I was off to the store for 2 hours and before I left I turned off the house water pump (which keeps pressure in the system) just in case (park water was still turned off). When I got back, I turned it back on and it didn’t run. Which means the system held pressure for that entire time. Good sign that I fixed it and there aren’t any more leaks anywhere.

LP Detector Modifications

I have a CCI Controls LP Detector and over the 2.5 years I’ve lived with it I have come to hate it. It turns ‘ON’ a solenoid that allows gas flow to the RV. The furnaces, stove, hot water heater and the refer all were supplied by this valve. It would sometimes start beeping within 15 minutes of my starting the GenSet (generator that provides 120V ac power while you’re boondocking – and it’s LP gas powered), seemingly detecting unburned LP gas from the exhaust gases. Then it would sometimes take an hour or so to clear the alarm after shutting off the genset. I can’t count the number of times I would have to wave a towel in front of the damn thing to clear it so I could light the stove and cook something or get the refer running again!

It was just doing it’s job so I couldn’t complain to much but I did know from lurking around RV forums that most people that complained about the LP detector being too sensitive would just buy new and their problems would generally be over or at least reduced. I wasn’t happy with that option, since there were also those who said, “All you have to do is clean out the detector and it becomes less sensitive”!

So, being the curious type, I decided to open it and see what I could see. I used a small grinding disk to cut through the plastic case which is welded (melted) together, with the usual warnings of ‘No user serviceable parts inside’. Well, that’s simply a lie. All the parts inside the case are standard electronic parts readily available at any electronic distributor. When I looked up the documentation for the heart of the system, the LP gas detector, I found that the data sheet, used by engineers to design the circuit to begin with, stated, “Very long lifetime” for the detector. Usually, in data sheet speak, that can mean 10-20 years.

I set it up on the work bench and applied power, it started beeping a warning within seconds. Several tests later and it still beeps after warm up, as though it’s detected LP gas. Then I used my vacuum cleaner and vacuumed out the detector. It immediately began working correctly. From that point on, whenever I would test the device, it worked OK. So, it seemed that those few on the forums who had suggested that the detector needed cleaning rather then replacement are correct. My tests confirmed that.

This picture shows the circuit board after removal from the plastic case. The LP detector is that brown round device near the middle of the board that has the silver colored metal screen. The circuit I added is not shown here, it is now connected to the terminal strip at the top of the board, with several circuit board modifications required:

I took a couple days to reproduce the electronic circuit schematic, so as to understand the functional aspects of the circuit. Then I began to work on a modification to the circuit that would give me a ‘Bypass’ function of some kind, sort of like a ‘quiet’ button on a fire detector. I’d already discovered that the circuit used a high side design…by which I mean that there is no connection of this device to ground, except through the LP solenoid (coil). This is a safety design that helps prevent, by it’s very nature, several failure modes that might actuate the coil when it shouldn’t be.

A couple months previous, I had teased out the method of that high side operation of the coil and added my own off/on switch, push button switch, and dropping resistor to the setup so I could bypass the faulty LP detector. Now that I had a working LP detector, I looked for ways to build in a bypass circuit to avoid those excessive false detections that I found so annoying. Having the schematic certainly helped.

This picture shows where I added a push button on the front panel of the detector. I caught the green LED just as it blinked, which indicates that everything is OK…no gas detected. The red LED next to the green is also something I added, it’s function when lit is to announce that the LP detector is not operating but that the valve is ‘ON’:

If the detector does falsely detect LP gas, while I’m cooking for instance, I can switch the detector ‘OFF’, open a window or two, try to figure out if I actually have a LP leak, turn on all my exhaust fans, then press that pushbutton which will actuate the LP coil and I can finish cooking dinner. Pretty handy. Of course, not a good idea if there is an actual LP leak, but I’ll only use it when I’m pretty sure everything is clear.

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Projects

I spent the last week or two working on sadly neglected projects.

I need what’s called a Genturi (a contraction of the words ‘Generator’ and ‘Venturi’) to get the exhaust gases from my genset up and over the roof because not doing that sets off my LP gas detector to often. Very annoying. I’ve gathered parts, and have come up with what I think is a pretty good design. I’ll put up pics when I get it finished.

Then my other project is from a concept I’ve had for a couple years. It’s ‘propane fumigation’ of the diesel engine. What you do is inject propane into the air stream of a diesel engine and it gives you more power by helping the diesel burn more completely. It’s well known to work and has had years of usage by thousands. But the commercial devices are made for small trucks, not RV’s, and are very expensive. But I cobbled together and installed a test system last year and did get a nice increase in horse power plus around 10% increase in mileage. Not a lot of increase but 10% is 10 gallons ($30 at this time) over 1,000 miles. And that’s 136 gallons saved over 15,000 miles, which is what I drive per year. That’s a $400 savings. I’ve now finished the electronic controller and have several of the parts I need for the complete system. What I need now is a nice flat paved RV pad so I can install the propane plumbing back to the engine. And I need to think about safety devices.

I’ll put up pics later, just now I’m only adding this info as a place holder.

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Fixing the Hot Water.

In Dec. ‘04 or so, I had been living in the RV long enough that I’d noticed that the hot water heater flame starting electronic sparker was intermittent. I’d flick on the switch for the gas to start and sometimes nothing would happen. Flipping it off and on would sometimes get the flame started but other times I’d have to wait a few hours before it would ignite.

Over several weeks, I ran several tests and found that one of the two thermostats, the ‘High Limit Switch’, was giving me odd readings with an ohmmeter. My records didn’t show any work done on the water heater so I decided to replace all the parts eventually but in the meantime, I just made up a jumper and shorted out the offending thermostat. These thermostat are usually closed and open at a certain temperature, that temp is usually stamped on the case. Jumping out the bad thermostat with a shorting wire would give me hot water, but no fire protection. My solution to that problem was to heat up the water for my shower and turn off the control. My quick fix worked for several weeks but then the problem reappeared. It was still intermittent so I only missed having a hot shower while camping a couple of times.

By August ‘05, I’d grown tired of messing with the situation and did some searches on the web looking for repair parts. I compared replacing parts with just replacing the entire tank while I was searching. Repairing came out ahead as it was $300 less expensive then buying a new tank, even if I installed it myself. I also checked the tank to make sure that it wasn’t in too bad of shape and would give me a few more years of service if I repaired it.

I found the best replacement parts I could at the best prices and since the supplier turned out to be in Forest Grove, Oregon, very near where I hang out in Gresham, Oregon, I just stopped by on my way to my stomping ground. While wandering around their facility, I discovered a reasonable price on an electrical heater element that installed directly into the drain of my gas-heated tank. Since it was only $70, I picked it up along with a new ESI module, and an ECO/TStat kit to replace the old thermostats. The whole group of parts came to just under $200. And no sales taxes in Oregon.

I’d already replaced the weeping pressure relief valve ($12) months before so I didn’t need to deal with that. The ESI (Electronic Spark Ignition) module was smaller then the one I replaced so I had to drill a hole for a self tapping screw, that allowed two screws to hold the module. Then I replaced both the ECO (Emergency Cut Off) and TStat (Thermostat) devices. All these parts are easily accessible behind the water heater door. I tested everything and it all worked, didn’t cut out or anything so I was good to go. With everything working it was time to install the ‘Hot Rod’ branded heating element. I have a 6-gallon tank so I bought the 425-Watt, 4 Amp heater that comes with an Anode, a thermostat and an electrical cord with 3-prong plug. After cooling and draining the tank, it’s an easy job to select the correct sized collar for the rod, install it in the tank, ty-rap the thermostat to the top of the relief valve, wire it up and tape everything in place. My model Bounder has a set of patio outlets within a few inches of the tank so I just plug in the heater whenever I park and have electric. Otherwise the cord is coiled up inside the water heater cover. Nothing overheats even if I’m using gas so it works out pretty well.

Here are some shots of the water heater and it’s new parts, the gray device in the upper right is the ESI module:

This shot is a little closer:

When I’m parked, here’s where I plug in the ‘Hot Rod’:

After installing the new ESI module, which was going bad and the cause of my second round of intermittent operation, and with the new thermostats, I haven’t had any more problems. And the water tank is kept hot with the electric element so I only use the propane now when I need a shower after a long trip or if I’m boondocking. The little electric element is very handy and I always keep it plugged in whenever I’m connected to shore power. It only draws 8 Amp when operating.

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What to do about the refer flame

Around 2 months after I bought the rig, I drove down to Walla Walla to visit a sick friend. On one of my many stops during that trip, I noticed that the refer had switched off and the ‘Check’ light was on. So I started watching it as best I could. Since I’d just paid $525 for a new refer cooling coil assembly, I was concerned there might be a problem with it or with our installation. What prompted the replacement was a strong ammonia smell emanating from the refer and of course, no cooling.

I was lucky that my son’s best friends dad was a recent ‘Mobile RV’ tech (got out of the business and went back to a dealer). Since my son had helped him so often with fixing or upgrading his computer, he did the replacement for me free, I just paid for the replacement part. We did the whole job in his driveway in around 2 hours. It’s not easy, takes specialized knowledge, and having an experienced tech was, well, required.

Anyway, here it was, going into ‘Check’ mode. I tried restarting and discovered that it would start right up and then go to ‘Check’ whenever I got up to around 55 MPH. Hmmm. There was a slight 10-15 MPH cross wind. Don’t know why, but I just figured that since it had just been serviced, that it was likely that the side wind was blowing out the flame and it wasn’t really a refer problem. So, I removed this cover:

and taped a piece of paper inside the cover to block the side wind since I thought that was the problem. Here’s a shot of under the cover. Note that the plate on the right is suppose to keep the flame lit in strong winds but doesn’t seem to do the job. In this shot, the front of the rig is to the right:

I ran with the paper cover for miles, stopping and cutting bigger pieces and taping them into place on the inside of the cover until I had just the right size and the flame didn’t blow out anymore. Then I went on several trips where there wasn’t a side wind or it was from a different direction. I did several tests of the paper baffle I’d made, usually enlarging it, to see if I had the optimal size or if it was needed at all without a side wind. Turned out that without the added baffle, the flame would blow out pretty regularly no matter which direction the wind was coming from or even if there was no wind. Get the rig up to 55 MPH or over and the refer flame would always blow out. Seemed a little funny to me that there weren’t any receipts for repair of this issue in the service documents that came with the rig…and I didn’t find much on RV.net either. In any case, I felt that the problem was a design issue, not an age, adjustment or repair issue, so a little redesign was in order.

The baffle size I came up with experimentally is 9″ X 15″. The long side is positioned along the bottom inside of the cover, then it’s taped in place with packing tape (which needs to be replaced once per year) on the bottom and top, no tape is used along the sides. I cut it so that it doesn’t cover any of the top vent row. I found that a semi-rigid plastic table mat works well and has lasted nearly two years. The positioning doesn’t cover any of the vent holes, it just routes the outside air around the added baffle, which I believe prevents the air flow from interacting with the propane flame too much while providing as much combustion & venting air as is required.

Here’s the picture of how I placed the baffle, note that it’s left side is positioned to the right side of the access hole when it’s installed, this would be toward the front of the RV since my refer is on the passenger side of the rig:

This fix has worked now for 22 months and in that time I have only had two, three, experiences of the flame blowing out. Those occasions were while I was running from a tornado in Nebraska or with really strong side winds. One thing I do is remove the vent cover and place it in the house when the outside air temp is above 85F or so (and I’m parked). I don’t want the refer to be gasping for air when it’s hot out.

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