Weather Proofing, & Windows…

Weather Proofing – Sealing the Windshield – May 2016

[For sealing the roof info, see: Roof and Roof Items…]

[For Glass Replacement – Front, see: Body Work…Front_Windows]

Just two days after I bought this Journey, discovered that many of the owners of this model have an expensive issue…

And that issue is the front windshields can easily end up cracked. Seems they are mounted into a steel frame. Then there are rubber gaskets surrounding them and caulking sort of holding them in place, but not too tightly. Over time, weathering, and the racking RV’s are constantly subjected to on the road, the seals give out or open a bit and allow moisture to leak into the frame, causing rust. This usually happens at the top of the window. At least that is were the majority of leaks form. And after there is a leak causing rust, that rust grows (if the leak is bad enough) and eventually causes inordinate pressure on the window, and that causes the window cracks. In that event, the $800 section of windshield with the crack has to be removed. Sometimes the leak or leaks are bad enough that both windows are cracked or the owner wants all the rust removed after being apprised of the issue. Removing the window will often crack it so shops generally warn the customer about the possibility and often quote both glass pieces.

After the windows are removed the window frame rust needs to be ground off, the metal treated, or replaced, sealed, new caulking installed, new gaskets installed, along with the new windows. So this can end up costing $3,300 to $3,800 or more depending on how much work the owner authorized or how extensive the rust is.

Here’s a short youtube video that shows and explains some things about the issue:

The video shows an Itasca by Winnebago but the Journeys, like mine, can also have this problem. And I wanted to be ahead of it, so the first thing I did was spray Jasco Prep & Primer up under the front access hatch (where the generator is) up towards the bottom of the window frame. Really tried to saturate the metal up there. The Jasco is an acid that turns rust back into metal and seals it somewhat so rust is stopped from spreading too quickly. Even if it gets wet again. I also sprayed as much as I could along the edges of the windshield while prying up the rubber seal with a plastic putty knife as best I could, careful to not get much of the acid on the windows themselves but I’m not certain much got onto the frame…if any. At that time, I was still gathering intelligence about the problem so that’s all I did for a while.

In any event, after all I learned about the problem, it was not a surprise when I got to Oregon and hammered with a giant storm that I found a puddle on the dash. I did cut and run heading towards California and sunshine but got caught a couple times in major storms as I dallied along the way.

And those times it rained, the small puddle on the dash directly in front of the driver a couple inches back from the windshield glass was all I had. That and a couple drops of water starting on the inside of the glass at the top and slowly making their way to the dash. The leak water was not all that rusty either, more dirty than rusty. That’s a good sign from what I read. Means that my leak is fairly new and it hasn’t caused much rust on my frame yet.

Eventually had the time to research and found it’s a pretty common issue for Winnebagos and after quite a bit of time reading and researching, I formulated a plan of attack that suits my situation. Thanks to those others before me with the same problem for posting what they did.

First step is to hang out in the dry desert so any moisture in the window frame dries. After that, what I decided to do is add an aftermarket gutter to the upper edge of the front windows and use 4″ wide synthetic rubber tape to cover the gaskets Winnebago used to hold the windows in place. And while I’m at it, do all the windows on the RV with the gutter material, except those already protected by the awning cover on the passengers side. So for under $125 I hoped to nip this problem in the bud.

This is the synthetic rubber tape I used, from Amazon: Rubber Tape at $13. It would be used to seal the front window gaskets by covering and spanning them a couple inches. Waited for a fairly warm day so the material was easier to work with. Then washed the area with soapy water, rinsed, followed by an alcohol wash.

Ran the tape down the middle of the window, and then across the bottom, covering the gaskets in both areas. Tried to leave as much slack in it as I could, no mean feat as the tape can be difficult to work with standing on a one step stool on top of the picnic table, in a stiff wind. From the inside of the RV, you can’t tell that the tape isn’t part of the window tint. And it hardly changes the view at all. I didn’t cover the top gasket with tape because I was planning on using the window gutter. I am pretty sure that the tape would have stopped the leak on it’s own if I’d used that, but I’d read that it weathers out over just a couple years and I knew that the gutter product can last for years with no maintenance. Then the biggest roadblock to that idea was that I could barely reach that upper area, even standing on my small stool on top of the picnic table and didn’t think I would be able to do a good job of putting on just the tape, or the tape first, than the gutter material above it. I thought it would be much easier to just put up the gutter material over the window and that’s what I ended up doing. Didn’t really have much trouble putting up the gutter.

Edit: 2023 – I found that the leak I had that puddled onto the dash or streaked the inside of the windows was due to leaks from the running lights. (See update from 2019 below) BUT I left the stick on gutter material above the windows shown here in place as additional protection. However, the vinyl tape I stuck to the middle and bottom of the glass in this next picture was not replaced after my cracked windows were replaced. Didn’t think I’d need it with the new window installation.

The three arrows in the picture below indicate where I installed the Synthetic Rubber tape. The bottom section was all one long piece. The vertical section, also one piece but not as long, I tried to center the tape over the gasket and did my best to keep it straight as I applied it. From the inside of the rig, the tape spanning and overlapping by 1″ on a side is not noticeable as that seam is covered by a plastic finish piece. Once I cut the bottom end off at the right place, I curved the tape back and stuck the end to the glass while I installed the horizontal piece. That way the vertical piece would be on top of the horizontal piece so less chance of there being a small leak where the tapes crossed.

Note that with the horizontal application, I put more tape above the window’s rubber gasket than below. That’s for two reasons…one, I didn’t want to put too much tape on the paint below the window, in case sun and weather caused the tape to stick too well, possibly damaging the paint; and two, I felt more tape above the gasket would give me better protection over various weathering conditions of cold and heat. Didn’t want the tape to pull away from the seam to early in it’s lifetime due to weather so used more of it on the glass. Should stick better there then on the rubberized gasket material.

From a few feet back, the tape looks like it belongs on the window. Once you get close up, than you can tell it’s just tape. I’m OK with it though.

After that was done, time to install the gutter material. This aftermarket gutter is what I used, available from Amazon: EZ Gutter

It’s like $30 freakin’ bucks for just 10 feet, so I only started with one roll for the front windshields, it wasn’t until I found how easy it was to install that I decided to do all the windows. None of them are leaking in the Journey, but they did end up leaking in my Bounder and the gutters and tape are very inexpensive insurance. Wasn’t until after I made that decision and ordered another two packages that I found a 25′ roll of pretty much the same stuff for only $42. Doh! Here’s a link: Trim-Loc Drip Rail Stuff comes in black or white. What you do to install is clean the areas with soapy water, rinse, allow to dry, than use rubbing alcohol to clean the area where you plan to attach the tape or gutter. Then quickly wipe the area with a clean cloth. So you need 2 or 3 clean cloths. When the prep was completed I guesstimated the distance from the right side of the window, marked the gutter on the red cover tape with a black marking pen at the supposed middle, cut and pealed back the backing tape on either side of the middle a little ways, and started to stick it down there in the middle. Trying not to stretch it while sticking it down 12″ at a time. After I had a foot stuck down there in the middle, I extended to the other side of the window and cut the gutter with scissors. Just tried to get close when I first measured it so ended up with some overhang and a couple inches of waste to cut off. The gutter material is heavy so cutting near to final length made it easier to apply.

Edit: Oct. 2023 – The added gutter shown here being applied over the window is still in good condition.

Wasn’t anyone in the RV park with a handy ladder to borrow so I had to use the picnic table and 1-step stool to stand on. Flimsy table top but it supported my weight. It’s a heavy table frame so another reason to start the gutter by sticking it down in the middle. So I wouldn’t have to muscle the table around all over too often as I worked.Missed the drivers side length by a bit. Cut that portion off. Also trimmed off the passenger side. After it was cut properly and stuck down, used my rubber hand roller to seat it. I was unsure how I wanted to do all the other sidewall windows (this was a few days later after I’d ordered and received 2 more packages of the gutters). But it turns out that once you put down the sticky 3M tape, it’s stuck forever and will not easily pry back up for reseating. So the drivers side window gutter looks a bit lopsided. I was trying to channel the water away from the edge of the window, and it had been cool the day I worked on it so the gutter wasn’t very pliable. As a result of those issues, didn’t try to force bend the gutter around the window radius. As it turned out, I didn’t like the look too much so the other windows I did I curved it around after cutting a relief in the gutter material.Here I’m letting the gutter material warm up in the sun so it’s pliable. I learned my lesson with the last attempt…it was too cool at the time so it didn’t bend easily.  After sticking down the majority of the gutter, left it sitting there for a hour so the sun could soften it a bit before I bent it around the corners. To make it easier to install, here too I started sticking it down in the top middle of the window instead of one of the ends so it was nice and solidly stuck down as I bent it around the curves on either end. Update: Oct. 2023 – The gutter material shown below eventually began to come off early this year but I now have an awning over those windows so the gutter would be redundant. I pulled it off and haven’t replaced it but I did save it. The section of gutter over the other window is still in place.

The gutter was a little stiffer than I’d like even after warming it in the sun. So I was hesitant to bend it too sharply. But on these living room slide windows, I went for broke and bent the gutter to match the window frame. And to facilitate that bend, I used scissors to cut into the backing (but not into the gutter channels) a bit so it would make the corner bend easier. Not sure that was actually needed and I’m sure it wouldn’t be if it had been hot that week I worked on this project. Got better at it as the job progressed. On these slide windows I bent the gutter material around the edges so it was down the sides 6″ or so. And these later installations look better from the ground too. Though I’m more concerned with how well they work and how long they last then how they look.

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After 7 months or so of desert living, with one or two rain storms, and a couple trips where I drove in light rain, it looks like the gutters and tape are doing the job. The heat of the days and cool nights of the desert didn’t cause any problems with the gutter but the tape did shrink a bit after it cooled off heading into fall. A minor problem. The drip that use to create the small puddle on the dash disappeared and no more drops of rain water running down the inside of the window so that’s a good sign. So I’d call the work with weatherstripping a success.

There is another product I found that might be useful if I do ever have to remove the windows (I plan on keeping this rig for at least 10 years) and that’s POR-15. With proper application, this stuff would totally eliminate any rusting even if there is a leak. It can be applied directly over rust, stabilizes and protects the metal, while preventing any new rust. The stuff is dangerous though and you’d need to buy a respirator if you use it.

There is more to do if I can find a ladder to borrow. That work is along the sides of the front windows. There’s a metal cover on the outer edges that I need to take off and see how the frame looks behind there. I don’t expect it to be too bad because the seal that I can see and probe along the edges seems to be in good condition but even so I’ll treat the frame with the Jasco where I can, than use the tape to cover the areas under those covers.

Update: Feb. 2018

Decided that the rubberized tape could stand being replaced. This job occurred while I was in the desert of Yuma with mild mornings running around 72F. The front windshield was in the shade, a neighbor loaned me his ladder, and I set to work carefully pealing off the old tape, which had become just a bit stiff and had shrunk in the 9 months since I’d installed it. I had enough left over from the original roll that I didn’t need to buy any more, and found that the horizontal piece was in such good condition, wasn’t going to bother replacing it at this time. The vertical piece had been stretched, become dried, and finally loosened from the glass in places so wanted to get the horizontal piece changed out with new. Mind you, it was still working, I’d have to pick at it to get it to lift off the glass, but wanted to do the change anyway. And tried to do a better job this time.

Wasn’t very hard to remove at all. Peeled off easily and then the glass cleaned up nicely. Again used alcohol and a clean rag.  I believe that I’d stretched it too much originally so this time I was careful not to do that again.

Update: July 2018

A friend in Fairfield, Iowa let me park on her property while I helped her remodel her bus to RV conversion so the RV was subjected to several downpours while I was parked. During those storms, I check repeatedly for any leakage from the front windows. Nothing was seen, no evidence of any water getting into the cab area whatsoever. That was good news.

But then, I left Fairfield and headed west. While in Nebraska, on the road traveling 55-60, ran into a rain storm. And over several miles, slowly developed a drip-drip-drip onto the dash from the same stained area above the dash where I’d had leaking previously. And as the storm intensified, that drip got stronger and faster. And then to add insult to injury, I started getting drops of water streaking the inside of the window on the drivers side. Again, approximately in the same area I’d had them before I added all the tape and gutter.

GAH! So the take away from these events is that when I’m parked, no leak, when traveling at speed during a rain storm, leaking in the exact same way it was leaking before I did the work. Strange. The water is being forced into an unsealed area while driving. And then finds it’s way onto the same path it use to take.

I think what might be causing this is the running light over that area of the windshield. At least I hope it is. Problem with sealing it up is that I don’t have a ladder, and everywhere I’ve stayed for the last few weeks I haven’t been able to borrow one.

Update: May ’19

After that stunning leak event while on the road west, I did my best trying to think of where those leaks were coming from. I’d been inundated with mass quantities of rain while parked in Iowa without an leak, but then while on the road during a rain storm, it made it’s way inside again as mentioned above. Curious behavior for sure. Well, after thinking for a month or two, and experiencing a few more rain showers while parked and no leak in evidence, I concluded that the only place the water could be coming from was the running lights up on top front of the RV. Specifically, one of the two on the right in this picture. Or from both.

Although they looked good, that had to be the places water could be forced into the cowl while driving and then make it’s way down to the windshield destined to streak the inside of the glass and drip onto the dash. Rather then removing them all and trying to find some way to seal them somehow, what I did was cut 1″ high strips of Eternabond 4″ wide tape. That I stuck just above the running lights so that half of the Ebond would be attached to the fiberglass and half would also be stuck to the top of the plastic lens. So sort of like a rain hat. The 4″ width of the Ebond was enough to do that. If I need to change a bulb up there, the tape would kind of act as a hinge and allow the lens to be lifted up so the bulb is accessible without ruining the tape.

In this picture, the running light on the right is the one I believe is responsible for the leaks that end up on the inside of the windshield. And the one further right (not shown) was causing the drip onto the dash. I put the Ebond cover over all of the lenses hoping that would stop any leaks. I haven’t driven in a heavy rain storm at 55 mph since I was back east in July so I don’t know if the tape has done the job but maybe soon I’ll be able to test the idea. Stay tuned!

Update: A year or so after adding the Ebond tape over the running lights, the Ebond failed. Driving into the wind slowly lifts the Ebond and dirt replaces the sticky stuff so it slowly peels off over time. I replaced it with a bead of clear bathroom type RTV. A thick 1/4″ bead around three sides of each light assembly. That has totally stopped the leaks I had that ended up on the dash.

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Windshield Wipers – Feb. ’18

You might wonder why I’d put this subject on my RV repair blog as wipers seem so simple. Well, you’re right, they are simple. It’s just that RV wipers now days are freakin’ expensive at nearly all the stores because of the simple fact that the stores only want to carry the entire wiper assembly. Not just a couple of inexpensive strips of silicon rubber. Exasperating when you are traveling and might be forced to pay $50 for the entire assembly, called a ‘Beam Wiper Blade’, when you could have used just the inserts for $10. Also maddening when you’ve been trying to be environmentally sensitive your whole life and balk at just tossing 3 pounds of metal assembly used for a windshield wiper assembly.

I knew that one of my wipers was tearing and wanted to get it fixed before I ran into any rain. So over the last couple months, as I shopped, I’d try to find some inserts at a reasonable price. Nope…every freakin’ store I checked has stopped carrying inserts and only carry the entire assembly. And a 24″ wiper cartridge is like $25 each at most of the stores I visited in person.

Went online to Amazon and typed in 24″ Wiper Blades and they’re showing the same stuff as all those automotive and big box stores I’d searched had. Hmm. Changed my search method and after some careful searching, soon found bags of 26″ silicone rubber wiper style molded inserts for $4.99 each. So got 2 new wiper blades for $10 with free shipping. I’ll go with that. I can’t even remember what search I used to find those inserts, but find them I did.

[EDIT May ’19: Amazon now shows the wiper inserts at $8 EACH. WTF?!! They doubled in price in one year. Well whatever, so recently I searched and found a 2 pack of the same thing for $1.99 on eBay. Which shows what a rip off the Amazon package is. Only advantage is that they have stock if you need them right now. Here’s the link to the less expensive wipers…2 pcs Universal 26″ Wiper inserts. I know they’re coming from China or overseas somewhere and it’ll take weeks so I’ve ordered them and am sending them on to where I will be in 6 weeks.]

One thing I learned by my search was that many of the blades were designated in mm. I assumed for width. So I went out and measured my old one and sure enough it was 6mm wide. Held in place by J hooks on the beam. The J hooks can be bent a bit either closer together or further apart if you buy the wrong width of rubber insert, but it’s probably best to measure first so you get the width you need to begin with. Mine are 6mm though, just like the style shown at the Amazon link. I guess 9mm is also a popular width for RVs, and even wider. Not sure they make them thinner.

And here’s how the new inserts look installed. What I did was remove the old insert blade stiffeners and blades…carefully so I wouldn’t lose those stiffeners…and than matched up the length of the blades so I could cut off the excess. Carefully held the two metal stiffeners in place in the molded slots on the new blades, used Scotch tape to hold them both in place along the edges of the blades while I worked the end into the wipers J hooks. Removed the pieces of tape as I fed the insert into the holder. And soon, the ends of the stiffeners snapped into place.

Yea! New wipers for $10 and 15 minutes of work.

Note: I found that Family Dollar stores carry some automotive wipers that fit my Saturn. And only $5 each if I need them quickly. Which I did recently at an RV park where the trees dripped and glued the wipers to the window. When I tried to operate them, they tore and since it was raining, needed them right then.